In this episode, we discuss modern stressors, the guilt of feeling overwhelmed, and how food choices impact our lives and the planet. Join us with David Benzaquen!
Guest: David Benzaquen, Founder and CEO, Mission: Plant LLC
On LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidbenzaquen/
Hosts:
Alejandro Juárez Crawford
On ITSPmagazine 👉 https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/alejandro-juarez-crawford
Miriam Plavin-Masterman
On ITSPmagazine 👉 https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/miriam-plavin-masterman
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Episode Introduction
David Benzaquen shares his journey into plant-based advocacy, highlighting how food choices impact multiple aspects of life. He discusses the challenges of introducing new products and changing consumer habits, emphasizing the importance of making plant-based options delicious, affordable, and accessible. The conversation touches on the balance between individual action and market dynamics, as well as the role of processed vs. unprocessed foods in the plant-based movement. The episode concludes with a discussion on the complexities of processed foods in the plant-based market and the ongoing debate surrounding their health implications
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For more podcast stories from What If Instead? Podcast with Alejandro Juárez Crawford and Miriam Plavin-Masterman, visit: https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/alejandro-juarez-crawford and https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/miriam-plavin-masterman
It's a broken system | A conversation with David Benzaquen | What If Instead? Podcast with Alejandro Juárez Crawford and Miriam Plavin-Masterman
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (00:03.432)
I think the weird thing about modern day stress for me is that the things that are most stressful but aren't emergencies, I often feel guilty for just how much they stress me out. This morning, before we opened up the session, I experienced all of the wires that lead to the location in the woods where I'm broadcasting from being changed.
And you'd think this is a luxury, right? Good infrastructure, I'm here via broadband. But it was incredibly stressful. Am I the only one?
Mim Plavin-Masterman (00:50.51)
I mean, I'd like to say none of these things fazed me except that would not be true. So I agree with you. And it's like, we take these things for granted. Like, I mean, two years ago we would be thrilled to have the level of internet we have. And now we're like, there's a tiny glitch and everybody loses their minds. They just lose their minds until it gets fixed. Like I am IT support in my house for better and worse. Sorry, fam. So I feel you.
I feel this just 100%.
David Benzaquen (01:21.781)
Yesterday my calendar.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (01:22.024)
But the emotion is that you... What did you say David?
David Benzaquen (01:25.813)
Yesterday my calendar suddenly blanked out and all my events disappeared for an hour and I really lost it. They all came back, but I was very scared.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (01:34.376)
Right, your events disappeared for an hour and you really lost it. And don't you find that, Mim, you said this, I wonder if it's true for you also, David, that half of the emotion is I shouldn't really be this stressed out about this. Like I actually am blaming myself for how bugged I am, even though probably all of us are bugged by this. So were you?
Was there a self recrimination there too? This will be an interesting theme we can get into in this episode as we talk about some of your work and all of the issues of guilt and virtue that we can sometimes get into when dealing with food and its carbon footprint. But first, how does that work on your end, David? Were you fine with your own frustrations, your meltdown?
David Benzaquen (02:28.853)
No, I definitely felt a little silly.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (02:32.04)
Hmm. So a little silly is emotionally for me not that bad. But it can often get to the point where it's more than a little silly. There's a...
David Benzaquen (02:47.061)
Well, I was very stressed. I wasn't beating myself up over the part of not feeling like I should feel that way. The stress was from the loss. I had expected that it was stressful. Yeah.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (02:57.48)
Got it. So it was just the straight stress that was bugging you. Yeah.
Mim Plavin-Masterman (03:01.006)
Yeah. Yeah. No, but for me, it's definitely the, not only me, but my whole family is counting on me to make sure that everybody has internet. So I feel that's best for sure. Yeah.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (03:09.672)
Yeah, this episode is being sponsored by one or more teletherapist services, and we've now typed each of you. John Mulaney, I once saw him do a gig, a stand -up gig at Upright Citizens Brigade, the improv comedy theater. And he said that he worked as a PA, as a production assistant with celebrities, and he had to get them their
And he said, if you want to understand why a celebrity is so enraged when their turkey is sliced in the wrong direction on the sandwich that you've just gotten them brought to their trailer, think about how you feel when Google doesn't load. So there may be something universal in this feeling. And with that, I do want to segue into what it means, these big issues that we're facing around food.
and real crises for our planet and what it would mean to make those changes delicious, accessible, and I think there's a third item in that trio that our guest today is going to teach us.
Mim Plavin-Masterman (04:24.622)
So before I turn the floor over to David to talk about how to make plant -based proteins delicious, affordable, and accessible, just to let our audience know who he is and what he's done. So his name is David Benziken, and he has founded a company called Mission Plant, which is about how to help companies who do this non -animal protein, how do they enter the U .S. market? And he comes to this company and this program and these services having spent...
15 years in the industry as a consultant, as an entrepreneur, as an investor, and really bringing an understanding of finance, of market research, of customer research to all of this. And how do you enter an untapped market, but potentially the most interesting sort of high prestige market in the world for non -animal proteins? So that is David, and we're very grateful to have him here today with us to talk about all the work that he's doing.
in this space. So thank you for joining us.
David Benzaquen (05:22.773)
Thank you so much for having me. It's a privilege to be here. So.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (05:27.272)
I'm Alejandro Crawford. This is my co -host, Mim Plavin -Masterman, and we're on a mission to make creating solutions of your own the way David helps enable as normal as watching videos on your phone. Welcome to What If Instead.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (05:51.304)
David, it's terrible that I forgot the affordability piece, right? Because you actually want these solutions to be available for everyone if I'm getting the right idea. So let's start there. As you do the work you're doing, talk to us about whom are you focused on serving? Who is the person that you're doing all this work for?
David Benzaquen (06:16.103)
So I guess it starts fundamentally with understanding the impact that I'm seeking to achieve and why I believe the solution that I've come across is one of many, but one of perhaps the most powerful of all solutions. So when I'm advocating for people to eat more plant -centric diets, the key element is understanding that food touches every single area of our lives and every life around us, right?
What we eat, what we put on our forks, what we buy in the grocery store affects the planet, affects food accessibility for people around the world who are starving, affects the access to water, the degradation of land, obviously the warming climate, the welfare of animals, our own health when we're facing, you know, heart and diet related disease crises. Food touches everything. And I'm so passionate about...
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (07:07.976)
Mm.
David Benzaquen (07:11.285)
food and that my love for it from a sensory perspective, but also recognizing that we can change the world through it. My mission of getting into food was really around my desire to be a change agent and having looked at all the ways where I can make an impact. And when I went to college, I remember going to the student... Yeah.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (07:31.56)
Wait, wait, before we hear about your college, you've mentioned your love for food and how delicious it is, and also your desire to be a change agent. So just so I get your Maslow's hierarchy right, David, which of those is more important, delicious food or change agent? Help us out.
David Benzaquen (07:48.149)
For me, it'd be change agent, but it has to encompass food. I mean, now that I've gotten into food, it's essential.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (07:52.808)
It has to be good too. Okay, this is important.
Got it. So just making the change and nobody wants it is not going to work. And I'm half kidding, but I think this is going to be very important. So let's now back in college, David Benziken.
David Benzaquen (08:11.669)
So the week before school started, my freshman year, there was a student clubs fair at orientation. And being somebody who really cared about social change, I went to all of the different tables for the different activist clubs, the death penalty club and the war club and this and that. And.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (08:28.328)
Which had the best snacks? Do you remember which table?
David Benzaquen (08:30.997)
I don't think any of them served food. It was very unfortunate. And at each place I asked them what they did as an organization, what I would be able to do if I joined. And they all gave me these answers about going to protest. And I said, all right, I'll do that and writing letters. OK. You know, George W. Bush was president at the time, so the FEDENCY club talked about writing letters to the president to stop executions. I thought that was probably ineffective. And I remember going to the club.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (08:32.744)
Go on.
David Benzaquen (08:59.797)
for the animal rights group and the woman who was leading the club said to me, are you vegetarian? And she said, we'll help you transition your diet and every single day you'll save lives. And every single person you encourage to move in that direction will save lives with every bite they eat. And I'm not somebody who wants to take away the responsibility of political leaders and businesses to
Ameliorate the terrible impact they're having on our world when it comes to climate But there is something incredibly empowering and beautiful of saying I can make a difference, right? I can save a hundred animal lives every year I can reduce my risk of diet related disease and increase access to affordable food around the world With simple decisions about what I put in my mouth and what I spend a dollar on in the grocery store So that was really the motivation for me to go into food
And then I fell in love with how much I loved it because now that I've been in the business for 15 years, every day people are sending me free products to test them out, to invest in them, where I'm being invited to dinners. And so I've really realized I'm a foodie through it.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (10:09.768)
But now this is very interesting because in the way you're focusing on the individual and what the individual can impact, but then you're also implicit or it sounds like you're thinking about how we make things doable or more delicious, more affordable, more accessible for that individual, which sounds less just about what I do. Let me just leave that because...
Mim Plavin-Masterman (10:10.67)
So.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (10:39.592)
Mim, I think you were about to ask a question there. Let's go where you were going.
Mim Plavin-Masterman (10:43.438)
That was actually my question of like, how do you move between the individual action and it's almost like a two -sided market problem. You have to have enough options for people to be able to try the food and like it and know how to make it. But then you have enough people who are going to try the food to make it for people to produce it, right? So how do you navigate that?
David Benzaquen (11:05.397)
So I'll give you the story that led me to that transition. So not long after college, I was working in the animal protection movement, advocating for people to change their diets. And one day I was speaking to somebody in my likely self -righteous tone about why they needed to adopt a vegan diet. And the person responded and said something super obnoxious, which I was kind of expecting, because you're used to hearing these things. And they said, why do you hate children? And here I'm thinking, you know,
But here I'm thinking as a vegan advocate, everything is vegan.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (11:37.736)
Wait, but we were going to ask you that, David. That was our next question. Like, I wanted to understand why you hate children so much. And not just children of certain ages, right? Toddlers. I want to know why you hate toddlers, why you hate grade school children. Just break it down for us, will you? Demographically.
David Benzaquen (11:41.909)
You
So.
David Benzaquen (11:51.153)
So every day I was used to hearing questions like, where do you get your protein? And, you know, if you care about animals, you must not care about people. So this was part of the course. But, you know, I dismissed the question a little bit. He said, no, hold on. He said, I'm joking, but where are your clothes made? Fair enough.
And he said, you're not wearing that shirt because you hate kids and don't care how they're treated in factories. You're wearing that shirt because you like how it looks, because it was easy for you to find and cause you could afford it. He said, you make vegan food delicious, affordable and accessible, and I'll change my diet. So I had spent my time trying to solve the demand problem, trying to convince people to change their behavior. And in three minutes.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (12:34.344)
Mmm.
David Benzaquen (12:43.445)
this person had taught me that the real solution was to make the supply have lower barriers, right? I decided from then on my life mission, my career mission was to make it so that people didn't say, why should I eat that? But why not? If it's just as good.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (13:00.136)
So we don't have to choose between Christopher Robin and Winnie the Pooh here is what you're saying. If you're done, it's not either or. I don't have to decide, it's like one of those horrible games. Who dies? Pooh or Christopher? You're giving us an alternative to that?
David Benzaquen (13:17.717)
Absolutely.
Mim Plavin-Masterman (13:19.886)
So it's like, what if instead you were vegetarian, right? Or what if instead you were vegan? Sorry, too on the nose? I had to try, okay. But I wanna go back to my other question though. So if you're focusing on the supply, how are you getting people to try it? And I'm saying this because I've read a bunch of stuff about when people try a new product, they have to try it like a dozen times before they like it. And so how do you get people...
to keep trying different versions of it to find the one that they like that's their way in.
David Benzaquen (13:54.837)
It's a great question and it's a challenge when this is a nascent industry and a lot of people ask me why people who skew animal foods are wanting to eat foods that replicate animal products, right? And it's a common question, well, why don't you just eat tofu and why don't you just eat kale? And I say to people, I would love for everybody to embrace kale salads as their number one center plate choice. Right now, people are eating Big Macs and Joe Hamburger Eater isn't switching from Big Mac to kale salad.
So there are so many cultural and emotional associations with the foods we eat. When I go to a baseball game, I want to have a dog. I do. And I'm happy that it doesn't have to come from animals, but I still want that experience. I want chicken wings in the bar. I want, you know, there are certain things that you want to experience. And for a lot of people, the fewer changes you ask them to make, the easier it is to embrace change. So that's why we look at these solutions. Now, being that it's a nascent industry,
It takes time for innovation to lead to the quality of products somebody might want, especially if you're trying to replicate something that's so emotionally tied to somebody's taste buds. And so it is hard to get people to find what they love, but over time, the products get better and better. You make them, you market them more effectively. You know, we're not selling wheat, germ, and sprouts anymore. You know.
People are recognizing that some of these foods are really good. There's a reason that over 18 % of all milk sold in the United States is non -dairy. And it's not because people feel bad about cows. It's because they like it better. And that's the kind of shift we can see. So I'm not asking people to identify with a political identity. I'm asking people to make discrete choices where every single day they hold the power of the fork, where they can make choices that are good for them and good for the world and that they love. And...
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (15:32.168)
Hmm.
David Benzaquen (15:50.261)
That's really the shift. It's not about what am I now. It's about what am I doing with this discrete choice and how can I feel better about it internally in my mouth and in the world.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (16:03.944)
I'm sure you get this question constantly, but how do you think about...
the alternatives between processed and unprocessed food. It seems as if every week there's a new study which says, well actually we found out that highly processed food is not so great for you. And along with that the carbon cost of transporting food when it's made industrial.
How do you think about that? I'm very conscious, and maybe we need to spell it out, of the carbon cost of raising beef and lamb and cheese and all these other products. But how do you think about, as you're mapping out a set of alternatives and you want things to be just so easy for, as you put it, Joe Hamburger to eat, about the...
the potential to shift us away from shipping industrially processed food from halfway around the country when we eat. Is that part of the calculus or that's a lower priority?
David Benzaquen (17:13.877)
Yeah, I think there are stages here and there are two different elements to your question. There's one about processed food and there's one about food miles and the climate impact of that. So I'm going to break those apart. So when it comes to processed food, like I said with the kale salad, right? I think the dream is for everybody to grow greens on their window sills and eat them. I think that's fantastic, right?
I want to see that world. I grow some of my own herbs and greens and peppers and tomatoes at home. I love to eat them. I think they're more delicious. And I think that having been part of the process makes it more special. And I definitely encourage people to do that, whether it's on their fire escape in New York City like me, or whether it's in a backyard, God knows where. That said, change takes time and takes transition. And so,
I am growing a few things in my home. I'm not growing everything I eat, right? I don't have the space for it. I don't have the time for it. I don't have the expertise. I don't have the climate for it. And so we don't actually have the luxury of eating without processed food. A. B, I think there is a really, it's important to recognize that the extensive attack on processed food being specifically targeted in animal protein analogs,
is actually led by industry. So there's an organization called the Center for Consumer Freedom, which is an infamous industry lobby. So the Center for Consumer Freedom, it was started by Richard Berman. He's been called Dr. Evil and Dr. Death by many people because he is who Thank You for Smoking was based on. So he has lobbied against mothers against smoking.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (18:40.712)
Mmm.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (18:46.632)
As soon as you hear that name, right? As soon as I know it's called the Center for Consumer Freedom, I know they're doing something nefarious. Go on.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (19:04.36)
What's so bad about consumer freedom, David? Come on. Go on, excuse me.
David Benzaquen (19:07.925)
He's lobbied against mother -of -the -dents junk driving. He's lobbied for tobacco, for everything, right? For guns. And he is the one who's come up with this big narrative around plant -based ingredients being very processed. And that's not to say that there isn't processing that goes into them. There's processing that goes into canning. There's...
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (19:24.488)
Mmm.
David Benzaquen (19:30.165)
processing that goes into fortification, our dairy milk is fortified with vitamin D because the calcium would actually leach from our bones and we'd lose calcium if we drank milk rather than absorbing it. So processing has saved lives, right? In many parts of the world, the climate is too arid to grow an abundance of nutritious food. They need processing to extend shelf life and to make it possible for them to consume things. And so I think we need to question the narrative that's being shared and...
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (19:40.904)
Okay.
David Benzaquen (20:00.405)
when we do want to acknowledge that, yes, whole foods are great, whole food ingredients, I believe that a diet that is based on whole grains, fruits, veggies, legumes, nuts and seeds is the best. 100 % will not argue it. And I think if we all can go there, that is the perfect world. I don't think we have that world right now. And I don't think people are ready for or want that world right now. And so I want to make sure that they are able to make...
steps, take small, small, discrete decisions that move them in the right direction. And these go there. The other thing is when you look at the industry that I represent or that I work in, that I'm very proud to work in, it doesn't mean that I wish that we did all the things we did just like an industry. However, we're put in a tough position, right? The animal protein analog companies are expected by their own supporters, by the, by the, by the own, their own advocates.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (20:33.16)
Mm -hmm.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (20:42.568)
Mm -hmm.
David Benzaquen (20:58.645)
and by industry's attacks to be the most affordable, the most delicious, the most sustainable, the most nutritious all at once. We get dinged if we use plastic bags. Plastic bags may sometimes be the only option for food safety or shelf life, but we're attacked for that. We have to use gloves, which costs 10 times as much. So on every front, we're being challenged to be perfect, but the same exact ingredients we're being judged for or packaging solutions we're being judged for.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (21:03.624)
Hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (21:13.416)
Mm -mm.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (21:21.768)
Right.
David Benzaquen (21:27.573)
are used without question by the industry that we're trying to knowledge.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (21:32.68)
So nobody's doing the campaign about the processing that goes into all your animal products, right? So.
David Benzaquen (21:37.909)
Nobody says, hey, Kraft, why is your mac and cheese made in X way? Because they just assume that it's not going to change.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (21:44.2)
it's so delicious wait isn't that one of your thing no I'm just kidding so but seriously this message has been sponsored by Kraft Foods okay but you're on to something really interesting the AI is getting close there is really no sponsorship by Kraft Foods here but seriously David I think you've taken us in a really interesting direction because you're now talking about these PR narratives and
Mim Plavin-Masterman (21:57.198)
Okay, the AI is gonna kill us, okay?
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (22:13.448)
You've brought up the industry's work to focus our concern about processed food, which too much processed food is a real and locally grown, around the plant -based alternatives. Now, you also make me think of the conversations about carbon footprint and how seldom anyone mentions animal products in...
The largest forms, it's always transportation and then sometimes it's industry. It's very unusual. Say that again. Yeah, exactly.
David Benzaquen (22:48.597)
light bulbs.
It's light bulbs, right? We all talk about plastic straws and light bulbs, but the impact they have also the impact of eating local is nominal compared to just switching a small portion of our diet, right? And I don't mean small portion as in all of our animal products. I mean, if you switch, you know, meatless Mondays, if you eat meatless one day a week, you're taking off so many cars off the road. You're replacing every light bulb everywhere. It's, it's so shocking that the narrative out of fear is focusing on things that
really don't make much of an impact when the one that's yes, intrinsically, emotionally tied, but also so powerful is right at our fingertips.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (23:29.928)
Yeah, yeah. Now, now you're raising the the perversion of proportions here, right? Where in our stories that we tell ourselves, it's you know, there's million articles about EVs every day or something like this and so few about meatless Mondays or something like that. Right. This what I want to ask you, if I can, David, is just as you talked about
Dr. Evil or Austin Powers making campaigns to associate plant -based food with processing. Have you thought about or looked into what it would take to change these narratives? Is that part of what you're doing? To change the narrative so we recognize what it could mean not necessarily to give up meat if I'm a person who loves it, but to...
either find substitutes that I love or just eat less of it and these narratives that you've just described. I didn't mean the question to be this long. You see where I'm going. Can you do what Dr. Evil did in the other direction?
David Benzaquen (24:42.613)
So I really focus my career on addressing the supply side, not the demand side. So it's not where I focus. However, there are definitely organizations that are working on that. And there are active campaigns that right now, sadly, with much less funding. But a big part of the narrative is also when I am working on the supply side, the conversation I have with my clients is to say, when you're criticized for X, talk about it. Say, I understand.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (24:50.088)
Right, right.
David Benzaquen (25:12.501)
You'd rather I didn't use a plastic tray on this. However, the alternative reduces my shelf life in half. Like I'd rather too, if you find me a sustainable solution that is just as food safe, I'm on board. But the alternative is three times as expensive, reduces my shelf life in half, is not as food safe, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And at the end of the day, I have set my mission around trying to make something that displaces this thing that I think is a lesser good. Right. And so.
I'm not saying that this is perfect. I'm saying that we have to make discrete choices and that right now this is the best solution we've come up with that addresses displacement of this other problem. See, that's the biggest challenge I see when there is criticism of those that are doing good is that it causes consumers to freeze and retain the status quo. And that's the scariest thing to me. vaping isn't good, so should we all just go on and smoke?
That's what I hear when people say that. People say, plant -based meat is bad. You know what? All of the meta -analyses by Harvard School of Public Health, by the WHO, and everybody else show that people who eat diets that are heavy in plant -based meats versus people who eat meat have significantly reduced rates of heart disease, diabetes, and certain kinds of cancer. So am I saying they're caled? No. Do I think that people should be eating diets entirely of processed foods of any kind?
No, but what are we comparing it to? And if the solution is to go back to the Big Mac, we're missing the.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (26:43.592)
Yeah.
Mim Plavin-Masterman (26:51.022)
I mean, this is like the perfect, it can't be, and the good are not mutually exclusive or it shouldn't be mutually exclusive, right? So because it's not perfect doesn't mean it's not valuable. So I know Alejandro has a question, but I wanted to pick up on one piece of this before I let him ask this question is as you're talking about building the supply side and working with all of these different companies to bring their products to the U .S. one of the things that we had talked about before we started recording was how almost all of your work is international.
So I wanted to kind of pick up on that piece of it initially and ask about the wrinkles in that. Like, and I guess it's a couple parts for the question. So one is how are you helping them navigate the sort of the cultural differences between making their product where they're making it and bringing it to the U S. And then the second is what are things that they're doing that are really interesting and innovative that we in the U S should be doing more of.
David Benzaquen (27:45.365)
Sure. Thank you so much. So I haven't always focused on international companies. Actually, for the first half of my career, I had an agency for 10 years that worked almost entirely with companies that were domestic. However, after building and eventually selling my own food company, I was approached by a company overseas that wanted to launch in the US and they didn't have the market expertise. And I found a niche there where there was a real need for companies who wanted somebody.
who could act as an all -in general manager to run their affairs from sweeping the floors to shaking hands, I realized that I could be valuable in that way to these companies. Simultaneously, the industry I'm in had been through a really big hype cycle in the US, which led to some really overinflated company valuations and some other challenges that are now showing some cracks financially. And...
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (28:40.488)
Mm.
David Benzaquen (28:40.981)
What we saw is in other countries, we didn't have that problem where there hadn't been as much of a hype cycle and a bubble. And so the companies that I work with, by good fortune, I've been able to work with companies that have not suffered from that. So that's been another piece of it. Now to your question about how I work with them to navigate and what they're doing differently and well. On how I work with them to navigate, a lot of it is about the cultural changes, as you mentioned. So I'll give you an example. I have a company I worked with.
that I'm still a big fan of called Yoeg and they make alternatives to eggs with runny yolks. They're really, really delicious. They make poached and sunny side up eggs with runny yolks and they're just amazing. And when they first came to me, there were two things, two examples that I can give that they had to change. One is almost all their marketing featured eggs in Shakshuka. Now, I don't know how much, how many of the listeners here know what Shakshuka is, but.
It's an Israeli dish, which is very popular for brunch in Israel. But here you look up the most popular dishes and it's nowhere near near the list. Right. So here, when we looked at where we were launching, we were launching in LA. And so actually, Chilaquiles was like way higher up there. Right. And eggs Benedict and other things that really made more sense. And so that's one thing is just in marketing using food, cultural food.
descriptions that actually made sense for the consumer, you know, showing the picture of Shakshuka people are like, why are there eggs in my tomato sauce? Right? And that's not what you think of here. So they would say, why are there eggs on my nachos? So, you know, it's just a different cultural thing that the other thing is, there are different expectations and standards because the country is much smaller there. So I have clients who are coming from countries where the market is much smaller. And so the, the audience that they're selling to are much more forgiving.
There are only so many restaurants or stores that are willing to sell these kinds of products. And so they're already expecting lower standards. And so they came to me with a product that had two parts. They had a liquid white and then a yolk that you would place on top on the pan. And I was like, this isn't going to fly in American restaurants. And a shelf life of like a week or two. Now the product is extraordinary. And when it was cooked, it tasted extraordinary. But I knew that American restaurants were not going to do that exchange. And so we had to go back.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (30:31.4)
Mm.
David Benzaquen (31:00.725)
And I had to encourage them to reformulate it into a single frozen product that could be dropped on the griddle and fried up with no changes. That's another example. There are also things about rethinking the portfolio based on what products are going to be desirable. I had a client that launched deli meats and they started with pate. Pate is delicious, but it's not something that is that largely consumed in the U .S. Whereas in Hungary, where they were from,
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (31:07.304)
Mmm. Mmm.
David Benzaquen (31:30.517)
Pate is extremely common. So it's about that. There are a lot of different pieces. Most of all, the clients I work with tend to be from one from very small countries with much less sizable and advanced plant -based industries or consumer bases. And with much less complex shipping routes and all kinds of other things here, the consolidation of the distribution industry and the strength of the grocery industry and all these things make it
very difficult to navigate. It's a lot more money involved and it takes a lot more time and you really need to know how and who to work with to get it done effectively. So that's the biggest deal is that they come to my agency to help them, you know, take that problem off their hands and navigate all that.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (32:17.96)
And it sounds like you're enabling them to do, to implement the big idea you started with of taking idealism and turning it into meeting us where we are, right? In this case, helping countries where it may be Joe Chachuka rather than Joe Hamburger, right, to market to a market where Joe Hamburger is the main, or is one of the main consumers. So I'm hearing this big idea.
Idealism, meet us where we are and satisfy what we want. If I'm not stating that too strongly, it sounds as if you're enabling folks in your international work to understand how to meet the customer where they want in the big market in the US. You also, you've raised a couple of points along the way that I want to flag. And one of them is you talked about financing very briefly.
and the boom and how it became a bit of a gold rush. I don't think you use that term but some inflated valuations perhaps.
What are the risks of a venture capital industry that often wants everything to work like software, that wants everything to have these outrageous flywheel effects and hockey stick returns? How do you think about that for startups and innovators that need to work within a business where
It's food. It's an actual product we need to get in your hands. It's not classic software scalable. How do you think about that?
David Benzaquen (34:04.949)
So I think I'll start by saying that I understand the hype. When we think of the problem that we're trying to solve, the inefficiencies in the food system as it exists today are shocking. The amount of waste, 40 % of food wasted before it even gets to the consumer's plate. The fact that we're flying food across the world and sometimes across the world to process it and then back to be consumed. The fact that...
you know, it's, it's a really broken system. The fact that we're using so much of the land and water we depend on that more water and land goes to grow grain to feed animals than goes to feed us. Right. It's a broken system. And from pure economic standpoint, the inefficiencies make it ripe for disruption. What is not being considered is that the time horizon to move consumer behavior, to adopt the changes that we need.
to solve those inefficiencies is a long one. And that unlike software, food is, even if you convince the consumer to eat it, the process of growing and making and transporting food is significant, right? So I always use the example that if you're building an app, one person could code in the dark of night in their bedroom with just their laptop and make a billion dollar product.
If I want to make a new food, I need to grow something or many some things. I need to transport them to a place where I can process them. I need to process them usually with a lot of hands or a lot of heavy, expensive equipment at scale, consistently and safely under very specific standards and metrics. I need to transport them usually to a place where I can process them.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (35:53.832)
You might not even be able to modularize the eggs and the yolk, I'm hearing, right? You might need them to go together. Excuse me, go ahead.
David Benzaquen (35:58.261)
There you go.
David Benzaquen (36:02.325)
I need to then get them to a distributor who then gets them to a store or a restaurant who then gets them to a consumer, right? There are so many moving parts and it's a very capital expenditure and operating expenditure heavy industry, right? Unlike software where one person in the laptop, you know, the CapEx is the laptop, the OpEx is the person and that's it, right? That's not how it is in food. You need many, many, many people and many, many materials. And so,
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (36:18.632)
Mm, mm.
David Benzaquen (36:33.109)
In the desire to shift our system and the awareness that there was a huge problem and there still is, we saw many investors from SaaS and real estate and tech come into the food industry to invest in this food tech world. And that's the other thing is there was a reframing of this innovative food as food technology. There is technology that goes into it, but what's consumed is still food.
how it's sold is still as food. And so investing in the innovation, it's interesting. I think we need to innovate. I think we need government support to innovate because we are destroying the world we rely on and we need to solve it through solutions the same way we've seen with incentives for driving towards more solar and more electric. We need that in this industry too.
But venture capital funding several years of R &D before a product is even ready for commercialization to then take a number of years to scale to a exitable business makes it a really not very venture backable industry, right? And that's been a challenge.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (37:40.968)
Mm.
Mim Plavin-Masterman (37:45.838)
So to pick up on that, so where is the money coming from? Who are the folks who have the time horizon, the kind of frame of mind and the money that you can help your people get through these hoops?
David Benzaquen (38:00.277)
So I think in some countries it is in fact the government. You look at Scandinavian countries and you look at Israel and you look at some other places and there are unbelievable support for food innovation that is solving the climate crisis. The Israeli Innovation Authority, the Finnish Innovation Authority has put in hundreds of millions of dollars into companies that are solving these crises as well we should, right? And we're seeing that now also in the Middle East, the Qataris and the Emirates and the Emirates and others.
are recognizing that as food deserts, they really need to figure out how to be more resilient in a climate crisis when they're already in a drought, but are going to get worse. And so we are seeing some of that, but we need additional sources. We haven't yet solved this crisis. There is a small amount of money that's coming from mission driven family offices and angel investors who really believe in this vision and are more patient.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (38:40.328)
Mm -hmm.
David Benzaquen (38:58.005)
I'm one of those angels who is very patient. I can only be so patient because I have to also reinvest in the things I believe in myself and I want to redeploy. But, you know, I am more patient than a fund that has to return to its funders. I think there are some other solutions that we haven't explored enough and that I'd really like to see. One is using debt financing more extensively. I have a friend who is an infrastructure banker.
And he talks to me a lot about the fact that we have a need for significant infrastructure around manufacturing and bio reactors and all this, you know, biotech that's being used to innovate. And those are, those are assets, those are hard assets that we could be financing, that we could be renting. and so there's a real money to be made in those hard assets around real estate and around, financing that we're not leveraging right now. Another area is.
potentially around more crowdfunding and more engaging of the public. and then I think we have to, we have to look for new solutions. There's a company, there's a company I'm blanking on its name right now, but they're making alternatives to cotton using seaweed. And it's this female, young female founding team who they're starting with replacing, with replacing feminine hygiene products and later going into clothing and other things, all using this.
very, very safe, clean and renewable source. And they realized that venture capital wasn't the solution for them. And so they created a new structure they call Future Profit Partnership Agreement, where they're actually giving their investors access to profit sharing. So they're accessing a much higher rate of return they would get as a debt interest rate, but they are not getting equity that only incentivizes them on an exit, which gives the company a really short horizon to succeed.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (40:29.96)
Mm.
David Benzaquen (40:56.053)
So I think new models like that would be really interesting to explore.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (40:59.144)
David you're making me think because you started us out with this pragmatic model for enabling change that meets us where we're at as as diners I'm wondering are there any thoughts that percolate in your mind for how to how do we affect change amongst
Capital providers that meet them where they're at you've mentioned multiple models from government support to future profit participation agreements to debt Has your work taught you anything that could bring the same? Pragmatism that you're bringing to the solutions to the financing thereof?
David Benzaquen (41:53.077)
It's so recent that we've seen this crack in the model that people were pursuing around traditional venture that I think it still has to percolate more. And I think it will come with the risk taking of companies like that young female team. It's going to come with people going out on a limb and trying new things and seeing if it works. So I don't know that I have a solution yet.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (42:00.776)
Mm -hmm.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (42:17.256)
Yeah, yeah, and I knew it was a super hard question, but your pragmatism in terms of meaningfuls where they're at raises this, and I think it's one we all need to answer as we're addressing industries that can have extraordinary impact, but tend to be difficult for the way early stage investing is structured. You have...
David Benzaquen (42:42.453)
I think the most powerful funding source though is the consumer. We have the power of the dollar. Every single day we go to a restaurant and we choose a dish from the menu or every single day we go to the grocery store. And with our voices, we could be encouraging others to do the same. We can make personal decisions. We can encourage others to do the same. And rather than attacking the innovators, empowering them and saying, I love that you're doing this. And if I have a problem,
I wish you would also improve on this, how can I help? Or what do you need to make that possible? Or why can't you? I think that I'm not trying to put the blame on consumers, but we have the power to be part of the solution.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (43:23.496)
You're bringing back the relationship between the supply side and demand side solutions, right? Which in theory could have a virtuous cycle where I value your discipline, where you say, I'm focused on the supply side. Of course, others need to recreate the narratives that we talked about earlier in the podcast, right? But obviously, if you can get some success in the supply side, then there'll be more budget to do.
you know, anti -Dr. Evil PR that maybe talks about the processed food in the meat industry. Imagine that, right? And if we can get some of that to happen, then maybe more people will be able to vote with their dollars. And you could see a virtuous cycle mounting. At least that's how you're making me think about this interplay between the supply and the demand sides.
You're also making me think I can't get rid of the egg and the yolk. Go ahead, Mem.
Mim Plavin-Masterman (44:19.662)
Yeah, I also think... So we've seen this in other areas where there has to be some way to make the supply and the demand balance. So like one of them would be an area of vaccines that people have resorted to market shaping mechanisms where the government will actually say like, okay, we're going to buy a certain amount of what you produce so that you're able to scale up to get to this. And I wonder if that's another piece of this as well.
of finding ways for the government to step in and be that initial kind of amplifier or boost. Because we've seen, again, we've seen, go ahead.
David Benzaquen (44:56.213)
Well, we could start by not doing that on the products that we're trying to displace that are already the status quo. I mean, the amount of rotting cheese the government buys every day and puts into empty caves. This is not a joke. Look up cheese caves on Google. The government every year buys millions of pounds of cheese to stabilize prices and throws it away. And we guarantee the purchase of so much of the meat and dairy supply by forcing it to schools at
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (45:01.48)
Hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm.
Mim Plavin-Masterman (45:03.438)
Right. Right.
Mim Plavin-Masterman (45:16.974)
Yeah, right.
David Benzaquen (45:25.205)
you know, ridiculously low prices just to stabilize prices and protect that industry. And so at the very least, we could embrace a so, you know, truly embrace the so -called free market that we're supposedly trying to create and take out this, the, the supports for the industry that's causing the problem. That would be a really big equalizing force to start. It wouldn't solve everything, but it would certainly help.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (45:48.2)
But it bears highlighting that instead of saying, well, the government needs to solve this, government stop with the cheese cave, right? Stop making it a playing field that plant -based innovators struggle to compete on because the government's buying all the excess cheese.
David Benzaquen (46:12.821)
And we see it in every industry across food. I mean, we see that if you look at the farm bill every year, you know, the amount of funding for organic farmers is a joke. The amount of funding for monocropped massive soy fields is huge. Right. And so we see it across all of these areas in food stamps. It's, you know, it's lopsided what people are allowed to spend their food on. It's only very recent that you're allowed to spend that money on farmers markets or on CSAs or more whole food ingredients and not just on processed stuff. So.
We have a lot of shifting the government could be doing to support innovation that helps us. Right. And the thing is, when we think about this as spending money, I really want to challenge that narrative. We are spending money as consumers every single day on rising healthcare costs and on all the issues that we're dealing in terms of the externalities in our environment. Right. The problem is that the real price of food is not born in the store.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (47:04.808)
Mm -hmm.
David Benzaquen (47:11.093)
We don't know what it really costs, not just because of government subsidies, but because we offset these expenses to the end of our lives and to our children. And that's a dangerous way to be looking at food. The real cost of food that incorporates these things would be much more balanced or even shifted towards the right direction. Because how can it be possible that growing 10 pounds of grain to produce one pound of meat is cheaper than growing one pound of grain for us?
It doesn't make sense. It's not mathematically possible.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (47:41.8)
Hmm I mean I haven't done a lot of math recently You were totally an e math weren't you yeah, okay, so This is an in joke which is great to do on a podcast so Yeah, exactly
Mim Plavin-Masterman (47:46.734)
I'm not a math person.
Yeah.
No, I was not.
David Benzaquen (48:04.085)
Hahaha!
Mim Plavin-Masterman (48:04.334)
So helpful. So it's so helpful. Many people know what we're talking about. So I want to go back to something you had said though, that we see this across a lot of industries in the food sector of government putting a thumb on the scale to support the status quo and what's traditionally been how we think about where our food comes from and who produces it. So when we're thinking about supply, then how are you able...
to try to make this affordable because to your point, it's not affordable compared to a true cost. It's affordable compared to a subsidized cost. So how are you thinking about the math of that for the consumer?
David Benzaquen (48:48.629)
It's a process. We need people to understand what they're paying for, and it's going to take time. And we also need to help people understand that if they are truly concerned about costs, they don't have to give up on this, right? I mean, dried beans cost a lot more than any of these things, right? It's very easy actually to eat plant -based very affordably, and the most healthy plant -based diets would be the cheapest of all, right? Dried beans and fresh produce, if you're growing it in your local Victory Garden, not expensive.
Right? There are very affordable ways to eat healthfully if you're doing it in that way. If you are trying to help people who are not ready to embrace those really wonderful, holistic solutions to make small transitions, then it can be really challenging and then it takes time. And it's going to be about making the case, right? There's organic produce is much more expensive than quote unquote conventional. I love the fact that conventional is the stuff we manipulate with
chemicals. I don't get it. But, you know, the people know that it's really unfortunate that it's so much more expensive, but it's not because people are trying to manipulate the system. It's because getting the certification is really expensive and getting the, you know, and being able to protect the crops from getting, you know, sprayed on by neighboring fields through a blow over is expensive. So it's, there are things stacked against us. And when it comes to the government, I do want to,
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (49:49.544)
Hmm.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (50:13.64)
Yeah.
David Benzaquen (50:18.261)
say one thing about the US in particular, which is I don't know that this is that this is helpful because it's not a thing we easily solve, but this is the only country where the agency that is scripted with regulating an industry is also the one required to promote certain aspects of it and probably the most broken. So if the E -Pay
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (50:25.8)
Mm.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (50:37.928)
I think there's a phrase, the fox guarding the hen house.
David Benzaquen (50:42.517)
But it's extreme, right? If the EPA was told to promote arsenic while regulating it, we'd think it was ludicrous. But every day, the USDA is support the support farmers and support the food, you know, support us in eating a healthful diet, right? They, along with the FDA, put out the dietary guidelines for Americans. They're also tasked with promoting the sale of meat, pork, soy, cotton, sugar, right? These very common corn.
these very common staple crops and commodities that are actually really problematic for us. And so it's a really broken system. The greatest example to me is a few years ago, the dietary guidelines that were by, for Americans that are put out every five years came out and it said that we had to cut our high fat cheese consumption dramatically. The same exact day Domino's released the stuffed crust cheese pizza that was
which for which the innovation was funded by the USDA as a way to get Americans to eat more cheese. It's shocking.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (51:49.864)
It's not really funny, but...
Mim Plavin-Masterman (51:52.814)
It's, I mean, it is gallows humor, right? It's...
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (51:55.784)
Yeah.
David Benzaquen (51:56.917)
It's really broken. And I don't want people to go to a place of desperation. I want them to say, I'm not going to take that and be manipulated. And so I'm going to take the power in my own hands and make choices for my well -being and for the world.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (52:00.072)
So, go on.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (52:12.392)
And actually, let's pick up on that, right? When systems are this badly broken that only Gallo's humor can adequately describe it. You're a person who has spent his life, his career since you were a student in ways that might seem courageous in that you're taking on the...
way we've done things and did it before anybody had heard of alternative meats, right? Unless you were growing up in my household and you just had refritos every day, right? Which is refried beans. My point is this. Would you be able to speak to our listeners about what it's meant for you to keep saying what if instead? What has sustained you when you're
you're really against so much current in all of the ways we just described. Culturally, in terms of government subsidies, in terms of investor models, how do you keep it up? And if you could speak to those who may be working on something, we had a recent guest on this podcast who worked with a group of young people in Dhaka, Bangladesh, who are developing a jackfruit -based leather product. And they're in college.
Speak to people who may need to find their ability to canoe against that current, please.
David Benzaquen (53:48.501)
I'm so sorry, we had some audio loss there for a minute, so I wasn't able to hear the last minute or so.
David Benzaquen (54:00.085)
Mem, do you want to jump in and?
Mim Plavin-Masterman (54:01.742)
Yeah, so he was talking a lot about how one of the guests we had on has done work with one of the universities to get students excited, energized, and fighting the uphill battles. So I think he's asking what sustains you as David, but also you as Mission Plant in fighting these uphill battles and continuing to fight them.
David Benzaquen (54:10.229)
Mm -hmm.
David Benzaquen (54:18.997)
Mm.
David Benzaquen (54:24.405)
Got it. So it's definitely.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (54:24.712)
Yeah, that's exactly right, Mim. And David, just would you please approach this not as I'm David Benziken and I'm the guy who does this, but thinking in terms of our listeners that in their own way want to find that ability to keep doing something when it's against so much.
David Benzaquen (54:48.821)
Sure. So I'd say two things. First, it's about appreciating and celebrating the small victories, right? Like I said, what motivated me to make a shift in my own life and in my career trajectory in college was somebody saying to me that I had the power to directly save lives, right? Or I had the power to directly, you know, protect my health or whatever it may be, or be here longer for my kids, right? Now I'm a parent and that's a big deal.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (55:11.272)
Yeah.
David Benzaquen (55:15.861)
Every day that I can extend my life to be here longer for my son and my daughter, that's a beautiful thing. And so I think the first thing is about personal empowerment and being really embracing that change and being excited at what it means to be able to be powerful. Because when we feel overwhelmed, we need to take back our agency. So that's the first piece. The second thing about celebrating small victories, right? I know that...
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (55:33.0)
Hmm. Hmm.
David Benzaquen (55:44.149)
We hit bumps in the road and there's a real curve and an S curve in how innovations are adopted or J curve as it may be. But I also know there's another side there and that the distance we've come is because people took those risks. You know, 15 years ago, the non -dairy milk industry was maybe three or 4 % of all milk consumed in the US and now it's 18. That didn't happen overnight.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (55:59.592)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (56:10.104)
Mmm. Yeah.
David Benzaquen (56:11.861)
but that is a massive shift, massive shift.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (56:14.76)
So this is extremely powerful what you're saying David, that the worst thing I can feel is that there's no point, because I have no power. Because what becomes the way we do things today, somebody without any power was doing it yesterday.
David Benzaquen (56:22.805)
100%.
David Benzaquen (56:32.949)
Absolutely. We have real power and agency here and food is one of the places where we can truly change the world with our own choices. And when people tell me it doesn't make a difference, look, the fact is the companies that are producing food for us are responding to markets. And if I don't buy something today, they will make one less of it tomorrow because they don't want to lose money. It's that simple. If I buy one more of these things, they'll make more of those. And so we do have that agency.
There's also a movement developed by a Princeton PhD student a number of years ago called Effective Altruism. And it comes from utilitarianism. It's a subset of utilitarianism. But the idea is that we have the power to dedicate our careers. We have spent about 80 ,000 hours in our lives on our careers. 80 ,000hours .org is the website for this group. And we spent about 80 ,000 hours.
in our lives and on our careers. And those of us who care about having social impact should be really focusing on how we can use our skills and our interests to drive the greatest impact most efficiently and effectively, right? So I started my career in the nonprofit world doing advocacy work. And at the end of the day, the shift that I made enables a lot because I had a job advocating for farm animal protection, one of four in the country at the time, jobs doing that work.
There were 80 ,000 people behind me who wanted that job, would have done just as good a job. And I think I had a call in to do the work I'm doing now. I was good at that, but I think I'm really good at this and there weren't as many people thinking to do this. And this shift enabled a whole new area to open up. So every day I meet people who want to have a change and don't know how their video editing skillset or how their, you know, bottle recycling skills, whatever it is, right? These movements are so massive. The need is so massive.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (58:08.136)
Mm -hmm.
David Benzaquen (58:29.429)
everybody's talents are needed and beneficial. And so I tell people every day that they should jump in. There is tremendous opportunity, there's tremendous need, and they will find a place.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (58:34.088)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (58:41.096)
Yeah, you know, I think there's a, you talk of the disempower, the narratives that tell us we have no power. And I think one of the most insidious versions of that is when,
the stories we hear, right? When you look up effective altruism, the first thing name you're gonna see is Sam Bankman Fried, right? And the stories we hear are so often about a charlatan who used something that could be empowering to con people. And so,
I want to close here by saying David that to me, stories like yours are critical because you're someone, and maybe you could close with this, you're someone that I know hasn't always had the easy break. You've started businesses at times when they were about to get lots of capital and then the business cycle has shifted and you've had to deal with that. You have worked.
so much to do one experiment after another to live this vision. And so I actually think if you could leave us with something powerful, just your own experience of having to keep experimenting, I want our listeners to hear the story of someone who's doing that in a way that is the opposite.
of a charlatan because they're so about what they're doing that they keep at it no matter what.
David Benzaquen (01:00:27.253)
So I have failed and failed and failed throughout my career at different business models, from my consulting to other things. What I think helped me was that I've approached my career always with the lens of impact. And I took everything that I did that quote unquote failed or that I found to be less effective for whatever reason as a lesson to try to open a new door. And...
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (01:00:49.864)
It's just, it's just.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (01:00:54.12)
Mmm.
David Benzaquen (01:00:55.221)
It's not constantly refining my thesis about how I drive my goals forward. And so I haven't seen them as failures. There are certainly things I've done that I wish hadn't happened, right? My food company grew like a rocket ship. And then in the pandemic, we sold only to restaurants and in the pandemic it imploded. And I was able, fortunately, to parlay it into a new company that is now doing extremely well under new leadership. But that wasn't the story that I ended it at, right? And...
That's a reality, but I also know that the lessons I learned in those challenges helped me be more effective for others, right? When I was first hired to help a company launch into the US, I said, I just lost my company. Why would you want to hire me? And they said, that's why I want to hire you. That's what it is. You understand what works and what doesn't, and you know how to navigate those rough seas. And so I think if you're thinking about it from the perspective of,
I have this stated goal, but I'm not married. I'm not arrogant enough to assume that I know the path there. And I'm not married to how to do it. I'm only married to achieving it. Then you can constantly flex and the entrepreneurs that I've invested in and the companies that I've invested in are led by, by entrepreneurs who are super humble, yes, driven and willing to continue to pursue and fight no matter what. But.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (01:02:03.016)
Mm.
David Benzaquen (01:02:23.477)
with humility and open -mindedness that they know that they will have to pivot a million times. Because my successes in my career have all come when I've been willing to pivot and to respond to the market and respond to what really was working and walk away from certain things. And my true failures have come where through fear, shame, or arrogance, I continued on a path that didn't make sense. Because who cares whether I'm doing, you know,
in -store samplings or store -to -store sales or marketing campaigns or this. I've done all these things over the years. At the end of the day, I'm helping companies to sell more products that are displacing something that is really problematic and that's a net good. And there are many ways to achieve that. And I've tried all of them, slowly getting better and better and better at it. And I love the fact that every day I can achieve in that direction.
and gain more skills in a tool belt that collectively makes me that much better.
Alejandro Juárez Crawford (01:03:26.504)
David, I can't thank you enough for sharing your experience and your vision and being with us here on What If Instead.
David Benzaquen (01:03:36.341)
Pleasure. Thank you for having me.